Don't know if this is the right forum, but I thought I'd give you guy's a heads-up on a group purchase a couple of us on another forum have started.

This might be of some interested to some of the 3rd gen owners on here looking to upgrade their TPI.

A quick summary of what we will be buying:

AS&M make the best flowing TPI runners for our cars. By far. They look stock, which is a nice bonus if you like the stock look, but outperform every other runner on the market, by far. These puppies flow 260cfm per runner. Easily surpassing all other players on the market. Independant tests have shown horse power to be increased by 25 and torque up by 30lbs with these runners alone on a STOCK L98 (350)

Now,

The sticker price on these runners is $415 US dollars for a set. They have two options. One for the 85-88 Fbody's and one for 89-92's.

I spoke to FastToy's (an AS&M dealer) in regards to starting a group purchase on these runners and after speaking to AS&M themselves, FastToy's spoke to me and let me know that AS&M agreed to start a group purchase.


As mentioned earlier these runners retail for $415. If we can get 10 (or more) people interested, our cost will be only $349 USD for the runners (+shipping).

That's like 15% off the sticker price and we're not likely to see another deal like this for a long time, if ever. Also keep in mind that the Canadian dollar has never been so good so now's the best time to buy stuff from the US.

Here are the guidlines.

- We have 2 weeks to gather 10 or more orders.
- All orders must be submitted together
- It will take 3-4 weeks for AS&M to build us the runners
- When you place your order, be sure to submit the Thirdgen.org G.P. price ($349)

I know this is a different forum, but I don't think FastToys or AS&M really cares what internet car forum you're on, so long as they get paid.

Like I said, I just wanted top give you guy's a heads-up on this deal. If you're interested, post and let me know. We need 10 or more guy's so the more people I can spread the word to, the better the chances we can meet the required amount of buyers.

Just for the record, here are some pictures of the AS&M's we plan on getting. (plenum not included. You just re-use your own)

I don't want to post the links to any other forums 'cause I don't know if that's against the rules or anything so if you want any additional information, just PM me.

Hopefully more will join. :smile:

Just to update anyone who's interested, some of the members are already submitting their orders. 4 so far have sent their's in and we have 8 others who (hopfully) will be doing the same from here until the 15th (the dead-line date)

Even if all 6 submitt there orders, that will only total 9 and we need 10 to get the discount price. We still need atleast 1 other person to place an order.

If anyone is interested, or has any questions about the group purchase, please let me know in this thread. Like I said, we have until the 15th to get 10 orders sent. Don't miss this oppertunity....

Wow. No one with a third gen Formula is interested in getting in on this G.P?

Oh well. Can't blame a guy for trying...

Sorry to have bothered you.

I'll be moving right along now... :laugh:

I'd be in on it cause that's a great price but I've got a whole new engine going in mine so they'd do me no good. Sorry

I might be interested. What are the indirect costs? I would need to pay my mechanic to install these parts. How many Labor Hours + additional materials could you predict?

Installing runners is really not that difficult. Simple hand tools and an hour of spare time and you're set. But incase you don't have the time, or just don't feel like doing it yourself, you're looking at 1-1.5 hours of labour at the most (mechanic's usually like to stretch out small jobs to make it worth their while. :laugh:

These runners alrady come with new gaskets and mounting bolts. You don't have to buy anything else.

If you're interested in placing the order, remember, you have only until the 15th of this month. It would probably be better if you didn't wait until last day though, as you don't want to risk missing out on the deal.

Here's the link to the FastToy's webpage that has the AS&M runners.

CLICK HERE TO PLACE YOUR ORDER! >

Remember, that inorder to get the discount price, you have to submit the following information to Fastoy's when you place your order online.

There's a "comments" box just befor you "submit" your order. In that comments box, tell them that you're a thirdgen.org member participating in the group purchase of AS&M runners for $349.


It is VITAL that you give them that infomation. Otherwise, they will think you're just a regular customer and charge you full price.



Let me know if you decide to place an order.

I'm trying to keep track of the order count to see how many confrmed orders we have and how many we still need in order to qualify for the discount.

We need 10 orders and so far, FastToy's has received 4. Min and a friends will be placed late this week/early next week so that makes 6.

There are an additional 8 members of our forum who have stated that they too will place there orders soon, but only time will tell, if all of them go through with it.

If, by chance, FastToy's does not receive 10 orders by the 15th, they simply will not charge our credit cards, so don't worry, it's not like you have to pay full price if you don't want to.

You might want to check out our forum, specifically, the two threads about this GP. Any questions you may have, will probably have been ansered already.

Here's the official thread for those who have placed their order or plan to place their order over the next few days.

CONFIRMATION THREAD >


QUESTIONS & ANSWERS THREAD >

im sorry but 25hp and 30ftlbs is kinda ridiculous, first of all the runners can produce more hp and torque but on a stock 250tpi the most restrictive part of the entire system is the base, not to mention the plenum and all the porting that would have to be done, putting the runners on a stock base would probably reduce hp due to the bottlenecking lip where the bottom of the runner connects to the base, a lip would be created and would cause tirbulance. i could see the 25hp 30ftlbs increase if u port matched the plenum (enlarges runner holes as well as grind out all lips and blockages around runners as well as behind the throttle body) and replaced the base with the larges one out there, prob TPIS bigmouth. also with all the added air you would prob have to put an Adjustable fuel pressure regulator and increase the pressure so more fuel is added with the new found air. only now could u possibling be making the hp that u thought u would get with the runners, but ur also out...349(runners) 450(base) 50(regulator) almost 900$ and you still havent done any of the porting or anything. who ever told u that u can produce that much hp from a runner change is retarded. edelbrock, SLP, Accel, can only produce 10-15hp more from a runner exchange and SLP is the only one that can make 15hp (due to its 3 inches of siamesed runners. A HSR can only produce 30hp over a stock TPI system on a stock 350 and that will flow more than any TPI system. dont get screwed on this, expect to be in the 900$ range for the power they proclaim. I know bc i had to do all this from an SLP upgrade. they do look like good runners though i would do the whole thing, base, runners etc

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I guess I'm just going to have to prove you wrong aren't I ? ... J/K :wink:


For the record, it wasn't me that came up with those performance claims. It was AS&M.



I've seen countless people running all kinds of runners on their 3rd gens over the years. I'm fortunate enough to have a chasis dyno located mearly 5 minutes away from my home and over the years, I've seen countless TPI Fbody and Vette owners run their cars. Out of all the dyno's I've seen, the highest HP/Torque cars have ALWAYS been the ones using AS&M runners. ALWAYS! There's never once been an exception. Take any two cars that have the same or similar mods, the guy running AS&M's (or TPIS, since they're both the same thing) have ALWAYS made more HP and Torque than guy's running SLP's or any other runner. It never fails....


Another thing I've noticed is that most powerful TPI cars also use the TPIS "big mouth" base aswell. The two are an excellent combination and I've seen L98's put out numbers that the so called "experts" say couldn't be done with TPI.

(On a side note,I've only seen 3 cars run the Accel/Lingenfelter base and they put out some very impressive numbers aswell. Equal to anything I've seen from TPIS)

All the cars running SLP's, even the ones that were ported out to their very limits, have never impressed me. Even a set of extrude honed SLP runner still won't flow aswell as an out of the box set of AS&M's. I've seen it too many times IN PERSON to belive anybody that tries to tell me otherwise.

Obviously, everybody is going to have their own opinion, and after seeing more cars than I care to remember, dyno throughout the years, I've come to this conclusion. SLP's simply do not provide anywhere near the performance of any other runner on the market and that includes Edelbrock. They're the bottom of the barrel sort of speak. Sorry, but it's true. There's a reason why the SLP's are the cheapest. and on the other side of the coin, there's a reason the AS&M's are the most expensive


Having said that, as I mentioned earlier, the 25hp 30lbs claims were not made by me. They were made by AS&M. Unfortunately, despite all the dyno's I've witnessed over the years, I've yet to see a 100% bone stock L98 with nothing more than just AS&M runners run on a dyno, so unfortunately,I can't verify if the cliaims of 25/30 are exactly accurate. Maybe. Maybe not.

We'll see what they're really worth soon enough when I put them on my car but I can tell you right now, beyond a shadow of a doubt, my L98 will put out bigger numbers with these runners, than any other similarily modded L98 would/could/has with SLP or any other runner out there. I promise you that.

The AS&M runners should arrive in a week or two. I also ordered the Lingenfelter base to go along with it. . I will guarentee you right now, I'll pict up 35-40hp MINIMUM with these two mods. Mark my words.



A bunch of us got together for a "dyno-day" on another Fbody forum I'm on and with nothing more than an exhaust upgrade and roller-rockers, my IROC put out 212hp and 290 torque at the wheels. Not too shabby I must say (The exhaust isn't even a full 3" exhaust either I might add, and I'm still running a cat too)

We're trying to get another dyno day happening before the end of the month so my runners and base will be on the motor by then for sure. I have no intentions of buying an AFPR, nor will I be porting the base or the runners. They will be bolted on "out-of-the-box"


Mark my words, 35-40hp MINIMUM with just those two mods.
Stay tuned, pic's, numbers and dynosheets to come, in the next few weeks

This should be interesting....

true with anything in life you get what you pay for.....and i have no idea about l98 tpi runners.

i wasnt saying that u said u would gain the stated hp and tq. wat size engine are you running for the dyno that ur hoping to gain the power from? if your running a stock 350 TPI i can tell you that ur not gona gain 35-40hp wit a baseplate and runner change. you might get 35-40hp from a runner,baseplate (both runners and base ported), completely ported plenum, airfoil, descreened maf, bumped fuel pressure to 50psi....maybe. they can only get 40 hp from a baseplate and vortech head change on a stock 350tpi.... now if you do a cam change as well u could get the hp #s that ur claiming. a stock 350tpi did a vortech head and scoggin dicky base change for 40hp...adda gm hot cam and edelbrock runners and 1.6 rockers and 52mm BBK TB and u get 354hp...stock chip and MAF. you also gotta remember that your intake hp gains will suffer if your exhaust isnt up to snuff. if you get more air in you gotta be able to get it out. the exhaust on a 3rdgen tpi is by far the most restrictive, there are claims of 25 rwhp with exhaust changes, upgrade to full tube headers and a custom and even more is capable. edelbrock claims a 25hp difference with there high flow base and runners. the lingfeilder base really isnt that much diff then an accel base or edelbrock, or scoggin dicky. the biggest would be the big mouth from TPIS(which have more meat for porting). Your large tube runners will produce more HP but wont really creat that much bc the runners are still too long and wont rev that much higher than stock...maybe 200-300 rpms higher in the power band. i have all the sizes of the aftermarket base manifolds as well as all runners produced including lingfelder, and all are relatively close in size... but the larger the engine, perhaps a 383 or 400 you will see more hp gain bc of the extra air needed but also a lower peak hp. let me kno wat size engine you are running and wat modifcations are being done before the base and runner upgrade so i can make a more accurate depiction.

i have the TPIS insider hints as well as there performance manuals and i have reserched the TPI very theroly bc i wanted to upgrade mine as well... i have never seen a 35-40hp gain from a base and runner change ever! maybe u will prove me wrong idk. dont get me wrong it is possible with other modifications done to the engine as well as it being a larger displacement engine.

get ur runners, and base and test it....see wat u get. then port ur plenum completely including behind the TB add an air foil and take the screens off the maf and increase ur fuel pressure dont forget the TB bypass...see wat u get. u prob wont even get the 40hp even now. you can see the diff in port size in the runners/base as well as how much they flow here.... www.stealthram.com and then click on flow comparision. u will see that wat im saying and u will prob regret ur decison with the runners when the HSR is cheaper and both will require the same tuning and custom chip etc.

let me kno how it goes, i hope u get the numbers your looking for so u get your moneys worth
i would def like to see the dyno sheets though.