Gents,

I recently found out I need to have some head work done on my '93 Formy. I figure since I have to remove the heads, it would be a good time to install headers. I started off looking for shorties, but after reading messages here, I decided on long tubes. Since I will have the heads out, I am going to have them ported and polished and install some full roller 1.6 rockers that are gathering dust in my garage. Should be good for a few ponies.

I have a couple of points I'd like to get some feedback on.

- Looking at Hooker ceramics with A.I.R. connections to keep it emissions legal (02231-1HKR)
- Long tubes will need a cross over (16765HKR
- Need a heat mat for the heater box. I think I will fab an aluminum shield and cover it with thermal cover
- Stock block/bottom end and cam. Rebuild coming later.

- I have Eibach springs on the car. Will there be an issue with dragging the collectors?
- Anyone using these? Impressions?
- Increase in under-hood temps?
- Any other areas needing heat protection?
- Other comments?
- Installation gotchas?

Thanks,
E.

P.S. I was stunned by the price of these bad boys. I bought ceramic long tubes for my '70 SS Chevelle (ended up not fitting) and paid ~$450. Ones for my Formula are twice the price!!

On my 00 Formie I had to notch the drivers side lower control arm a little for clearence.

You will need tall jack stands - I think 6 ton comes to mind

Get some heat protection for your clutch master to slave line too. Headers can boil the fluid and cause these to fail.
I had to replace my master in my 02 Camaro due to this

I have Hookers on the Formie - no complaints but do look around
I'have Dynomax systemax stainless headers on the Camaro - tho they were on it when i got it they look to fit a bit better.
Look at Kooks also - if you want to save $$$ - Pacesetters

look at pacesetters, they're what I have on both of my cars. they fit pretty good and hardly ever scrape unless I have other people in the car. Plus with buying them on sale I got my last set for about $350 coated.

Thanks for the feedback.

I did look at Pacesetters here - Pacesetter

The part number I found for my '93 is is #72C2239, but these show to be without A.I.R. I need the AIR fittings.

Did I miss something?

Thanks,
E.

Pacesetter doesn't make 50 state legal long tubes for the 93. They do make a set of mids for the 93 that are 50 state legal.

Pacesetter Application guide.

Here's a set on ebay with y-pipe included.

Check LMPerformace for the Hookers. You might save a couple bucks.

Well, I guess since Pacesetter doesn't make them with emissions, then I am back to the Hookers. Looks like LM has better pricing.

Thanks,

E.

Yea just be sure to make everything VERY clear to them. They seem to be a little thick. Great pricing, but a few bulbs short of a full pack.

10-4. I will be clear when I order. Thanks again for the feedback. Will see what happens when I get the head out and find what the valve issue is. Tell you what though, there is a lot of sh*t that has to come out to get the heads off.

E.

Roger that and just a word of caution. When you put the intake back in, be very careful with the bead of RTV in the front and rear of the intake. There is no gasket at the front and rear of the intake at the oil valley. If you don't get this just right it will be worse than the Exxon Valdez spill. Take it from a guy that had to do it twice. (Seems like we may have discussed this before).

10-4 BrdWatti2d!

For some reason, I keep thinking about that. It's pretty standard fare to use lots of RTV on the front and back of GM intakes. I also got to do the one my BBC twice, but for a different reason. Anyway, I used nearly a whole tube of RTV in the two attempts.

Thanks for the tip though. That stuff bears re-mentioning just to prevent the issue.

E.

Well then. The choices are dwindling.

Hooker and Pacesetter DO NOT make long tubes for a '93 LT1 with A.I.R. fittings. I guess I might need to revisit shorties.

E.

Just my opinion but I think I'd go for those Pacesetter Mid's. You're running the Borla cat back on a Magnaflow cat?

10-4 BrdWatti2d.

Here's where I am so far. MAC is leading the pack on pricing. I know a lot of cars from my old club running MACs. I have no experience with either brand, but 5 hp difference is hard to justify with a $175 price difference. Both are coated, with AIR & y-pipe. Can't confirm if either or both need to have the y-pipe welded. I would assume so.

Thanks,
E.

JBA headers - 1803S-4 shorty with AIR $774.97 - stainless, $940 - ceramic
MAC headers - TF3593 shorty with AIR and y-pipe $469.50
Pacesetter Mid - 722C1338 $644.95
SLP headers - nothing
Hedman - nothing
Doug's Headers - nothing
Edelbrock - nothing
BBK - nothing
Dynomax - 87734, ceramic, y-pipe, $824 (Summit)

I would not waste my money with anything but longtubes...you will not even notice a difference in performance at all.

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalo...4e927d3a1105c0f

Check those out, long tubes for your car made by Jet Hot. They are coated, and have an optional EGR & AIR for ya. Only $500 bucks on WS6store.com (the BEST online store around, they have lower prices than anywhere i have seen. They are a great company and i always get my stuff from them)

Check out the rest of their headers as well:
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalo...4e927d3a1105c0f

Hope this helps!

WOW!! $940.00 is a tad pricey. I know a couple people that run the pacesetters and no complaints. Don't know anything about the MAC's but that's a pretty good deal with the y included.

I have actually heard pretty bad things about Pacesetters. I was talking to some guys at a performance shop that does exhaust work, and they all say to stay away from Pacesetters. The guys who install them say that they are VERY hard to line up correctly and have problems fitting them to the exhaust manifolds, which can lead to exhaust leaks ect...I have heard that MAC's are a good brand, but again i would not even bother getting shorties or mids at all.

Myself I wouldn't go with shorties as most of the time you won't see a whole lot of difference between those and the stock ones. As for the midlengths you will see gains from those. I know several people in the car club here that have mids on their LT1 cars and with other minor mods their cars are running low 12s.

As for the Pacesetters, don't believe all that you hear. I've got Pacesetter LT's and ORY's on both my 97 and 99. There was no fitment issues with them anywhere along the line except for the fact that the outlet of the ORY and the inlet of the I-pipe of the Magnaflow catback were the same size. To make them fit together we used a "slip pipe"/mating pipe that was slightly bigger then both of them to mate them up. Also matter of fact the ones on my 99 have been on the car for over a year now and have approximately 50,xxx miles on them and they still look as good as the day they were put on. The ones on my 97 haven't been on there very long (less then 2 months) but they still look great too.

The only thing though that I done different with my Pacesetters though was I didn't use the gaskets that came with them since they seemed a bit on the flimsy side. I just got another set of stock gaskets to use in their place. So far, no leaks, no problems.

Jet Hots for $499?! Awesome! I just need to know if they come with the y-pipe.

Thanks a lot for the tip. That was an online store I was not aware of.

E.

Hmm perhaps i doubted the Pacesetters too quickly i guess. I was just told by numerous people to keep away from them, and due to that it sorta scared me away from them. I trust Sue tho! Actually, i'm not sure but are Pacesetters coated when you buy them? I know some people are very concerned with them being coated, and i would recommend it definitely, as the coated pipes stop rusting, as well as reduce heat extracting to the outside (could lead to melting wires and things of that nature). I've got a friend who's got Mid-lengths on his 96 Z28, and he says they are junk lol! I'm sure you do notice a gain from the mids, but basically what i was saying is that if you are going to spend that kinda money on mids, just spend a tiny bit more and get the long-tubes, as there is no comparison between the two. LT's are worth the money, midlengths...i'm not too sure...

I think the problems everyone keeps hearing about with the Pacesetters is with the older style ones. I know several people besides myself who've gotten then in the last couple of years and haven't had any issues with them, except for like the issue I had where the outlet of the Y-pipe and the inlet for the I-pipe were the same size but that's not a big issue to fix.

As for them being coated or not, with the Pacesetters you can get both the LTs and Y-pipe/ORY either uncoated or coated, the choice is up to you. But mine are coated and it wasn't much more for the coated ones vs. the uncoated ones.

What type of mid-lengths does he have on his car? They MAC or another brand? The couple of people I know have MAC ones on theirs.

As for mid-lengths vs LTs and which one is better, value/numbers aren't the only thing you've got to consider. Sometimes having to pass emissions and safety inspection has to come before both of those things cause if you can't pass those and can drive your car even the best LTs aren't worth the money you spend on them.

Tis true...I talked to my friend today at a local car meet today and his mids are Pacesetters. He said that when he bought his, he got them coated and there turned out to be a hole in the piping, however it was covered up by the coating. So after they installed the headers and started it up, it blew a hole right in his headers But yes, that would make sense as to all the problems everybody hears about being with the older headers, seeing as he has a 1997 LT1 car.

If those would have been my headers and that happened to me I would have contacted Pacesetter, told them what happened and then tell them I wanted another set!!

So does he have a 96 or a 97? I'm just asking cause you posted both years. Also how long ago did he get the mid-lengths? Was it more then like 3 years ago? If so, then yea, they're the older style ones rather then the newer style ones like I have.

i think he did get new ones but i'm not sure, the shop he took it to may have just patched it up i'm not really sure. He does have a 97, i was wrong in my first post i couldn't quite remember the exact year, but his is a 97. Although, i do not know how long ago he has had them for...i think he's only had the car for a few years tho, i will have to check.

No problem on not knowing with whether he got new ones or just fixed the ones he had and on how old they are. I was just curious.

I believe repairing a set thats jet coated would be dificult. Welding ceramic?

I have a question on some pacesetter longtubes. just about all the guys at muffler shops around town have told me that they have to pull the motor of the mounts to install them. I was wondering if this was true?

Well, I've never heard it that you have to remove the motor from the mounts but you do need to loosen up the motor from the mounts so that you can lift up the motor slightly so that you can get the headers past the whole engine and inner wheel wells easier. Maybe that's what they're talking about.

i have the jet hot long tubes on my 95... did them last year what PITA lol. They fit awesome ive only scraped them maybe twice since ive had them on the car and i drive mine alot. Mine didnt come with the y-pipe so i had one to get fabed up cost a little more then i expected but it sits up nice and tight. only thing ive come across melting is plug wires which is a normal, you will more then likely have to route them over the vavle covers to be safe. I didnt cause it doesnt look the greatest but ive went through a couple wires since so whatever no biggy.

the fit and finish i would choose these headers again for my next project. just one thing to look out on to make sure the air fittings are correct. mine is a 95 and i got headers for a 96/97 cheap and the fittings were not the same luckily i have some manifolds laying around from a buddy of mines build to swap them over to get them functional.