Ok guys and gals, I've got a weird electrical/starting issue on my 97 T/A and I want some opinions of what you all think it might be to see if what you think is wrong is what I'm thinking it is.

So here goes. Last week I was at work at 4 am and went outside to move it to another parking spot. I got into my car and tried to start it and all that happened was a weird clicking sound that sounded like a relay opening and closing extremely fast, almost like a RRRRRRRRRRRRRR sound. When that happened all my digital gauges reset (trip odometer, clock on the radio, etc.) and it sounded and acted like my battery was dead (lights dimmed out inside the car, etc.). Since it was dark outside with just the lights from the parking lot to see by I decided to just wait until I got off work and it was daylight outside to check everything out. Well when I got off work at approximately 11am I went outside to my car and just for S's and G's I decided to see if the car would start or if I still had the same problem. Low and behold the car started right up. I went home, changed out of my work clothes and had a friend follow me up to Advance Auto incase something happened while I was driving. At Advance they checked out the car and found nothing wrong with it, the battery checked out fine both on and off the car as did the alternator and starter while they were on the car. Also no random power drain showed up either like there would be if something wasn't shutting off all the way (like the light in the glove box) when the car was off. I drove it for the next 4 days without any problems. Also all of the cables are clean and tight with no corrosion or play in them.

Now today, when I went to go to work at 3:30am, I went out to my car to leave and I got the same problem showing up again. Interior and exterior lights are all showing up bright as they should but when I went to start the car all I got was the RRRRRRRRR sound when I tried to start the car and the interior lights dimmed.

One thing I did notice is that when I tried to start it both times, the voltage gauge went down to almost 0 but when I stopped trying to start the car the gauge reads in the normal range (13.5-14.5 range).

What I'm thinking is that the starter is going out on the car and that the sound I'm hearing is the starter solenoid trying to engage and that extra power loss I'm seeing cause the starter is drawing the extra power trying to get the solenoid to engage.

So what do you all think? Am I thinking correctly that it's the starter causing the problem or do you all think that something else is going on?

BTW, the car has 154,xxx miles on it and as far as I know that starter is the original one from the factory.

Are you sure the sound you're hearing at 3:30 and 4:00 AM is a RRRRRRR and not a ZZZZZZZ?

I think you're on the right track. Couple other things to think about: The Theftlock system could be acting up, although I believe that it cuts off fuel, not ignition. The battery could have loose plate that might test fine until you hit a bump, or may be affected by temperature drop at night. I just replaced a tired battery in my Grand Am and I think it solved some starting problems I was having. Keep in mind, I did say that I think you're on the right track. I'm just throwing out other possibilities (or, in other words, following instructions).

Was it humid? What is the temp? Since it only happens at night I would suspect the battery, a cable, or the starter.

Matt

yeap I was going to say the same thing, humidity. Has it done it before? If not maybe the starter is beginning to go out. NOt sure about the details, but perhaps the seals are wearing out allowing moisture buildup which is why it happens early in the morning. has it ever happened during the afternoon?

Before these two times, no it hasn't done it before.

Yesterday afternoon I went outside and tried to start it again since the temps had warmed up and the car had been sitting in the sun all day. Still no go, all I got was that weird RRRRRRR sound. So I done what any good mechanic would do when they think it's the starter - I got out a hammer and gave the starter a few good thumps. Low and behold after I done that the car started. Stupid starter.

After that I went and ordered a new starter for it. It'll be here later this afternoon so I guess I'll put it on tomorrow after I get off work.

For those of you who have changed out a starter on an LT1 car, do you have any tips/hints/tricks about changing it? I'm just asking cause I've never changed one on an LT1 car and I've heard that it can be a pita to change.

Thanks for any help.

Yes, tips.... disconnect the battery, undo the electrical connections from the starter, remove the two bolts holding it in place and let if fall with a thud to the surface below. Do the opposite to install the new one.

If I had seen this thread earlier, would have mentioned that the solenoid probably has a dead short or the solenoid piston has stuck--that's why the lights went dimmy on the dash. All you need is a new solenoid.

the original starter might be even able to get fixed if you take it to an electronic shop. I had the selonoid and wirings replaced on an alternator from a Taurus. Not sure if you could do that with a starter. afterall there are nuts and bolts of which you can take it apart. just a suggestion, but if it were me I'd get a knew one. what brand are you thinking of getting anyways?

Get the LT4 high torque starter. The RRRRRRRRR was the planetary not engaging. Cool you found it.

Thanks guys. I figured it was the solenoid on it that wasn't engaging,

As for which one I got, I would have gotten an LT4 starter but the cheapest I could find one of those for around me was for almost $400.00 and it only had a 3 year warrenty on it. So instead I just got a WorldWide one - reused outer case but all brand new interior parts, full lifetime warranty on it too (not a limited lifetime warranty), for $170.00. I done that since I plan on keeping the car until I'm too old to drive it, I figured in the future I'm going to have to replace it again sometime and with the lifetime warranty it won't cost me a cent if/when I have to replace it again. Yup, I was thinking ahead on that part cause you know our cars.

Got the starter replaced and got a new battery while I was at it.

As for your tip Me Too, there was a little more to it then just removing the nuts/bolts and then letting it thud to the ground. Gotta love how GM put things in the way, like the Y-pipe and motor mount, so that it's a royal pain to actually get the old one out and the new one in.

But don't worry guys/gals, I'm wirtting up a new tech article/how to article on how to replace the starter WITHOUT having to remove the y-pipe to get the starter out and the new one in.

There must have been a change in the cars. Mine was easy to remove, just a couple of bolts and it made a thud on the floor. The hardest part was removing the electrical wires before it went thud, and even that was not really a problem. Nothing was in the way. The starters are at least light, unlike the old ones. Had mine completely apart when it was off the car, cleaned and greased everything, replaced brushes, etc. It held up for as long as I owned it. They are pretty good starters.

There must be a difference between the OBD I cars and the OBD II cars down there as well as my car having 2 cats while yours only had one. Who knows, but I got it swapped and my one baby is back up and running. Now to get my other three the same way.

Yup, that was my guess as well...either it was the X-over pipe or you were looking at it crosseyed again. Looking at anything mechanical with crossed eyes makes everything twice as difficult as it should have been.