I am looking into sub frame connectors for my formy, and I was wondering if weld on or bolt on ones would be better? Would the bolt on ones be less durable?

also, Ive noticed x-brace types as well as regular beem types (would look like to capital I's side by side)

basically...
I I vs. X

anybody who has seen these probably knows what I mean...
would an xbrace be that much better and worth the money? They are quite a bit more expensive...

I haven't really looked into subframe's too much, but i can tell you from what i've heard that the "X" design stiffens the car much more. I had a friend who USED to have a T/A and he said that when he had the subframes on his car. he could jack up the front wheel and the rear wheel would come off the ground too. I'm not too sure if the "X" design is actually worth the money unless you really plan on going all out on your car's suspension setup. If you plan to auto-x the begeezus out of it, than yeah it may be worth it. But for a DD i would use the cheaper design...that's just me though.

Oh, and DEFINITELY weld on.

with the weld on I know you have to grind, weld, paint ect...seems ike a hassle, is it really worth the extra effort and time?

what difference would it make?

And yes, its a DD, but I drive it like a performance vehicle...I take it to the track, and I want this thing to be fast as ##### someday...

You can buy bolt on ones (which come painted) then have them welded at a later time.

yea, I know they come painted, and thats why i am considering buying them instead of the weld on ones...


what would the benefits be of welding them on, i geuss is my real question?

dude just think about it man! it depends how you want the weld. I would think across width and length to make sure they are secure. Depending how many holes you have to drill for the bolt ons then thats different, then there would be a certain number of points that secure the subframe. The subframes are at the bottom anyways, no one will be bending their rear to look underneath so chill.

welding them on makes them actually BECOME part of the frame of the car. Bolt on is good, dont get me wrong, but it will never be as solid as if it were actually one whole piece. Also, with the bolt ons, the car will put stress from the frame wanting to flex on those bolts and the holes made for the bolts. If they are welded, the stress isn't directed to any one "weak point", but it's transferred through the entire frame of the car.

I have the bolt on for my 95, but you can get them cheaper and install them yourself. i do plan on welding them on first chance I get. A weld generally holds better than a bolt, no matter how tight you get it.

The X braces take up precious ground clearance and are generally not needed unless you autocross as mentioned.

Matt

A GOOD weld will actually be stronger that the exsisting metal around it. If your going to do it, weld them on.

ghost bird, i am not wored up about people looking at it...theres no need for me to settle down cuz im not worked up...I was wondering about paint for protection reasons, not cosmestic. Id rather it not rust...

I was simply wondering the difference in stability between bolt on and weld on.

and fyi, the bolt ons go in factory bolt holes, if i remember correctly...

Mastertomos,

I worried over the differences between weld on and bolted on before installing a set. Yes, the welded ones are technically superior to bolted on ones and they never come loose, become a part of the frame. Properly done, the welds are stronger than the steel they are welded to--in fact, if something breaks, it will be the steel and not the weld.

That said, I bought the bolt on set. The important thing to consider is if they hide up into the frame so that the car still has adequate clearance, and are they joined at the center permitting driveshaft removal, etc.

Found that the bolted on set is extremelly strong and it was the single best thing ever done for the car. The X-frame markedly improved the handling, got rid of some squeaks and seemed to stabilize the entire suspension. The bolts were torqued to 70 ft lbs front and rear after cleaning the mounting pads, and greasing the bolts. Also, important to remember, install them with the car on a lift, or use a jack so that you can crawl underneath. But if a jack is used, only tighten the nuts and bolts with the car sitting flat on the floor after bouncing it up and down several times.

Was able to install them by myself in about an hour. Never had any trouble with them, even a year later. Retorqued once for safety and that was it.

awesome, thanks for the info...

So has anybody used the non xbrace type? have these been just as beneficial for anybody?

I have the weld-on X-type SFC on my '98 T/A. There is no ground clearance issue(they tuck nicely, can't even been seen unless you get under car and look up) and the benefits as far as stiffening the chassis are huge! Yes, 'tis true about the jacking one corner of the car and the other end of the car wants to go up too.

Bear in mind from a resale point-of-view that if you do weld to the unibody structure this will consitute unibody/frame "damage" and makes the car worth less to a retail dealer... so if you were to attempt to trade in, the value would be diminished. The reason is that these bracing structures such as SFCs actually intrude into the factory designed crumple zones, therefore in theory making the vehicle more likely to transfer the energy of a collision to the occupants of the vehicle and increasing the risk of bodily harm.

does anyone have the non xbrace type? the two single pillar types? are these even worth buying?

everyone has a lot fo great things to say about the xbrace type, weld on or not. But I think I will go with bolt on, just so I dont have to change anything about the car itself (resale value).

will they provide just as much of an improvement? Will the ground clearance be hurt with those?

Each style/brand may fit a bit differently, so it is hard to generalize.

The 2 individual bars that run the length of the car will help so yes there are benefits to this style as well.

As for the bolt on SFCs, I've heard that some people use them with no complaints(see Me Too post above). I've also heard people say the bolt ons will cause excessive wear to the mounting points.

No matter what style/brand you choose, IMO they are a huge benefit.

Thanks for all the info and opinions..Ill go with bolt on for sure, and Probably the 2 single style beams...

Im looking for a gain, but not a full blown racecar, Im looking for something that will give me a firmer car, and prevent body panel shifting...

looks like the single style and maybe a strut tower brace from BMR or SLP will be on my car in a few months...thanks fellas