USMCracing
Feb 13 2009, 01:39 PM
Hello, I'm new to the forum. I just bought a '97 formula that runs amazingly with 112K miles on it. Other than the headers and exhaust, it is almost bone stock. I'm not in a position to make big purchases like a new short block or such, but I can make a few hundred dollar investments pretty regularly. I was wondering, since I'm new to the game, if anyone could help me out with a good list of bolt-ons that would help me max out the engine before I inevitably have to replace it in the next year or so.
MasterTomos
Feb 13 2009, 06:51 PM
Cold air intake from K&N or morosso cost only a few hundred bucks and add a few ponies and you get better gas mileage too...
a new intake elbow wont add any horsepower, but it looks a lot better and it frees up room underneath the engine by eliminating the huge tube underneath the stock elbow...
a 160 degree thermostat will keep yur engine cooler, and discourage overheating obviously...cooler engine=cooler air=makes more horsepower
if you start messing with the Throttle body or the mass airflow censor (TB or MAF for short) the biggest doesnt mean the most power gain. Aftermarket TBs come in 52mm or 58mm...58mm is waaaay too much and 52mm probably wont be needed either until you upgrade a cam and heads and such...pretty much the same with the MAF...
stock mass airflow censors and mafs wont do you ny good until you start getting to the 400hp mark usually...you can actually loose horsepower by putting those things on...they're simple and tempting, but stay away from them for now!
if you've got a manual get 4.10 gears, and if you've got an auto get 3.73 gears...these make a huge difference and get more pwoer to the pavement!!!
Drag radials really help reduce tire spin and improve traction...Id suggest a good set of these...
Tires, Cold air intake, and rear end gears are among the cheapest of performance mods and will definately spruce up yur ride...
Tyler
Feb 13 2009, 09:19 PM
A good coomputer tune with a 160 stat will make some power. I recommend PCM For Less (.com).
I agree with the CAI.
The MAF is debatable. I wont say it's not worth the $$ but I gained a tenth by boring my MAF out and losing the screen. I also lost a little gas milage but I dont drive mine alot so that was fine with me. I also noticed more top end pull with a 52mm TB. I'm sure some heads would make the TB more effective but I still recommend it if you can get one at a good price.
Synthetic oil in the motor,tranny,& rear end will gain you about 10 hp.
1.6 rockerarms will boost the hp some but changing the springs is recommended and thats not necessarily an easy job.
MasterTomos
Feb 14 2009, 01:12 AM
how much gain do you think you could get with exhaust, headers, a 160 degree stat, a CAI, RR's and a tune?
(directed at tyler, but anyone feel free to answer

)
amptuttle
Feb 14 2009, 01:37 AM
A grip. Haha. Well what sayin K&N claim 18ish, BBK shorties say around 8-10, SLP tells us 25, already around 50ish. Im gonna be naive and optimistic and say around 80.
Tyler
Feb 14 2009, 03:37 AM
QUOTE(MasterTomos @ Feb 13 2009, 08:12 PM)

how much gain do you think you could get with exhaust, headers, a 160 degree stat, a CAI, RR's and a tune?
(directed at tyler, but anyone feel free to answer

)
I had those exact mods and a 52mm TB at the track once. Stock the car ran 14.33 and with those mods ran a 13.62 or a 13.69,I dont remember the exact e.t. Going from 3.42's to 3.73's got me down to my sig e.t. of 13.48. I have not been yet with the cam.
Dont think I was trying to prove you wrong or anything. I just gave my results.
johnniereb
Feb 14 2009, 03:42 AM
The MAFS...I just ordered one that's supposed to be tuned for cold air intakes and free flow exhausts...I've got both on order now (

) and was wondering if this would provide no results at all. Not much motor work done yet...and probably won't be gettin too much more for awhile. I'm getting My MSD optispark installed along with plugs and wires soon. I'm hoping the MAFS will help with that, otherwise I'll have on for sale and just clean out the old one and punch out the screen.
amptuttle
Feb 14 2009, 09:57 PM
Don't punch out the screen!!!
MasterTomos
Feb 15 2009, 01:01 AM
man here we go with the MAF debates...haha...
basically do what you want...people have "proof" and support of doing different things with the MAFs
some people de-screen the stock one...others say never do that
some people bore out the stock MAF and show about .1 in 1/4 improvement, others say no way!
some people say get a new one, others say you loose horsepower from putting a big one in without motor mods...
I descreened my stock one for now (take it out and poke the screen out in it with a screw driver)......its a great ongoing debate and nobody will ever be proven completely right or wrong probably...
Basically do what you want....its seems to be different on every car...
amptuttle
Feb 15 2009, 03:47 AM
I know I was just sayin. Did your screen like break break or is it still good to put back in there?
Tyler
Feb 15 2009, 04:57 AM
Mine had a retainer ring in it. Pop out the ring and the screen comes out. You can put it back later if you want. There is a boring bar at work and I used it to bore my ends. I took them almost to the O-rings then I used a bottle brush hone to smooth it out. I have a stock MAF to so if I go anywhere far I can get my milage back. I dont think you will see much if any gains on a stock motor without a CAI to support the extra flow. Worth a shot to try it though.
Me Too
Feb 26 2009, 01:49 AM
It's real simple, there are only two things you don't mess with on the engine. One is the MAF, the other is the throttlebody. You can mess with the throttlebody if you want, but bear in mind that you probably don't have the hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to remap the airflow that is programmed into the PCM to agree with the TPS signal. However, in high hp engines, it is a proven fact that a 52mm throttlebody can help, but this will occur with a loss of low end torque.
The MAF is a different story. The stock engine can only flow 490 cfm at 5,900 rpm. the stock MAF is rated to 800 cfm. So, what do you hope to accomplish by making changes? The "screen" is not a screen, it is there as a diffuser to smooth the airflow past the hot wires for an accurate measurement, and the little black box mounted to the MAF is the little computer that changes the hot wire signal from the smoothed airflow to the 400 Hz pulsed DC that is needed by the PCM. Change anything within the MAF and the PCM is thrown outta whack. Modify the MAF at your own risk.
All this talk of hp increases by modifying the MAF is a bunch of bunk. People punch out the MAF, then go to the track and tell everyone the change increased their trap speed. As compared to what? It takes the PCM some time to adjust for the change, if it can adjust at all, and it can't. What these half-bit mechanics are actually showing is a lean running engine, and that is not good. Fuel economy will go down, there will be a permanent loss in low rpm driveability and a when the PCM is fully tuned--a permanent loss in hp except for narrow rpm ranges here and there. This cannot be changed, it is impossible to make hp by hogging out the MAF. The MAF measures air flow and that is all it does, and to change anything within it is to screw up the airflow measurements as permanently mapped within the PCM.
Tyler
Feb 26 2009, 03:40 AM
Like mentioned above,this is always a debate. My car runs quicker with a modded MAF. Others may not. Buy you an extra one to tinker with and see what you find.
Me Too
Feb 26 2009, 06:58 AM
QUOTE(Tyler @ Feb 26 2009, 12:40 PM)

Like mentioned above,this is always a debate. My car runs quicker with a modded MAF. Others may not. Buy you an extra one to tinker with and see what you find.
Let's end this debate once and for all...if the stock MAF flows 800 cfm, what, if anything can you do to make it flow more when even the very best engine cannot flow more than about 650 cfm. And, before you answer, this is a trick question in which anyone that answers is gonna lose. This has all been discussed countless times before and all I keep reading is anecdotal evidence from someone who "thinks" their car has gone faster, but they can never prove it.
So, before you guys that do dyno work even want to begin to jump down my throat, has anyone here been to to a GM dyno besides me? Does anyone know how sophisticated those things are compared to the junk at the mom and pop corner dyno store? There is no comparison, and GM built your MAF to measure air flow and they tested it with their dynos, so why muck up the very thing that measures the airflow? It is the most important single sensor in the entire engine and all it does is measure air flow, it does not make hp and there is no way to make it make more hp--IT JUST MEASURES AIR FLOW.
johnniereb
Feb 26 2009, 07:41 AM
Yes, GM uses much more sophisticated tools than what we have the luxury of using, and I'm sure that the MAF that comes stock is all that will ever be needed. People will still do what they think or know will help, and the debates will never cease. I personally bought a brand new Jet model. But I'm also keeping the stock one in case the Jet model shows a noticable negative difference over the stock one. Obviously some people show differences in their vehicles, whether noticably good or bad. Jet claims that their model is tuned for a CAI. Maybe that doesn't mean squat, maybe that means the world. I don't know. But I'm willin to give it a try.
9T8W66
Feb 26 2009, 03:46 PM
I'll try and explain this as simple as possible.
A ported MAF will show less airflow at a given rpm and manifold pressure then the stock MAF. This forces the PCM to look up a different ignition advance curve the end result is a torque increase at the same rpm.
MasterTomos
Feb 26 2009, 06:08 PM
man this is getting intense!
I told you this was gunna happen....haha
Tyler
Feb 27 2009, 01:56 AM
Here were my findings on this subject.
MAF testNow,I'm sure this does not satisfy you Charles but it is proof regardless of what GM dyno tests you were witness to. This always ends up with someone getting ticked off and if it does not stay civilized I will lock the topic. Just because someone thinks they have all the answers DOES NOT mean everyone else in the world is wrong.
For anyone wanting to know if a modded MAF is worth fooling with,buy an extra one and bore it out and see for yourself.
MasterTomos
Feb 27 2009, 04:42 AM
This is such a controversial topic that Ive just leftr mine alone.
some will crucify you for touching the thing, others say you'll run about .1 better or so.
with it being so devided, I decided to leave my stock one in there and punch out the screen. Little of both worlds
MasterTomos
Feb 27 2009, 04:51 AM
also just gunna throw this out there, I talked to the boys at PCM for less and the guy I talked to said on a stock LT1 you can gain 15-18 RWHP and 3/4 to 1 mpg on a stock or mildly modified engine...
that'd bump a single cat LT1 to nearly 300 horse and a dual cat to about the same as a ram air LT1 with 305hp

just thought I'd throw that info out there
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