I just got new tires (stated by my other thread "tire age"). However, the car seemed to kinda "drift" to the left ever since, no matter which road I was driving on.

So, I decided to get an alignment to correct the issue (which it did, much better now). The tech said he only made minor adjustments (does the "before and after" look ok)?

Before (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = -.08"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.0*, Caster = 4.2*, Toe = .06"
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .1*, Cross Caster = .5*, Total Toe = -.02", Set Back = .35*

After (front)
LEFT -- Camber = .01*, Caster = 4.7*, Toe = .10"
RIGHT -- Camber = -.01*, Caster 3.2*, Toe = .05
FRONT -- Cross Camber = .2*, Cross Caster = 1.5* Total Toe = .15", Set Back = .54*

He also adjusted the rear (I thought that was impossible on a live-axle car). These were extremely minor adjustments (I can post them too if needed).

I have no idea what this all means, does this look right? Or will this cause problems down the road? Thanks!

EDIT -- I made sure all 4 tires were set at 30psi before taking it in for an alignment.

Well according to this site your pretty close to factory
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html

Mine on the other hand is closer to the Street/AutoX settings

New tires,{ different brand/ more tread} can cause an alignment missadjustment to surface. You did the right thing going with the 4-wheel alignment, it makes everything symetrical. A front end that is just sliohtly off specs as yours was can very easily cause a drift to one side or the other. Now if it was severly out of adjustment, it would have made it PULL to the left

Don't want you to panic, but that is one of the worst alignments I've ever seen. Would have to think about it as to which way it should be pulling, but I think the car should have a severe pull to the left. Don't, and I repeat, DON'T allow the mechanic to align your front end that way. The front end of a Firebird does really well with a -0.5 camber on both sides, and a +4.5 caster on both sides (this keeps the outside edge from wearing out). Toe in should be +1/8th inch total or about 0.08 to 0.10 inch total toe-in . Both sides should be equal under all circumstances and do not let the guy align for the "crown" of the road. That is an old myth.

If the mechanic's machinery is accurate, and your front suspension is doing exactly what the readout says, the left tire will start wearing on the inside and the right tire will wear on the outside during normal driving.

Two things to consider. 1) If the guy's equipment is accurate and that alignment allows the car to go straight, then one of the new tires has a shifted belt. or 2) The guy's equipment is not accurate and there is no way you will ever get an accurate alignment from him--go some place else before your tires are permanently screwed up.

Look for possible torn lower a-arm rear pivots. If they are worn out (torn), then there is no way that the front suspension can be properly aligned to stop pulling to either side.

There is absolutely no way that this "crook" could have made any adjustments to the rear suspension unless he was able to tighten down a bolt/nut or two and those aren't adjustments. The rear suspension is permanently aligned from the factory. If lowering springs are used, then an adjustable panhard rod should be installed, although that is not strictly necessary. All a "4 wheel alignment" on a Firebird does is allow the front tires to be aligned to the rear tires--the rear tires are permanently aligned to the center line of the car, and the equipment that was attached to the rear tires shows that the car is straight on the aligning table--it is the correct way to align the car.

This is why I learned to do my own alignments.

The place that aligned my car is the same place that sold me the tires (and did the mounting, balancing, etc). They have an "A" rating with the BBB and I have trusted them for many years anytime I needed work that involved wheels and tires.

They're reputable, I don't really think they're crooks. But I agree these cars can't really get a 4-wheel alignment (EDIT -- The receipt specified THRUST alignment which, according to tirerack.com, is common on live-axle cars)

The car was drifting to the left on every road, and I mean EVERY road I was driving on. Now, it doesn't drift at all.

EDIT -- Might be worth mentioning before the new tires, the car did seem a little easier to steer left compared to steering right. Same with new tires (plus the drift to the left). Now, there is no drift and it takes equal amount of effort to steer left or right. The steering wheel is perfectly straight as well.

Sorry, but if those "after" figures are correct, there is no way that the car is properly aligned. I advise that you have it checked or get your own alignment gauge and double check it. All it takes is just 0.1 degree of difference side to side to cause a pull either right or left. as much difference as you quote will cause a terrible pull to the left...enough to cause a loss of control on any rainy road. You should also check your front suspension for worn bushings, particularly the lower, rear A-Arm pivot which are prone to tearing. There is no way that your car should be the way it is.

sigh......if i take it elsewhere, guaranteed I'll be asked "why didn't you buy tires from us???"

Maybe I'll call the place that did the alignment and question the specs. If I don't like what I hear, I guess I'll start looking around.

Ok, called them today and told them what the readout said. They agreed the caster is a bit off but said the camber and toe are right where it should be. They said a few possibilities:

Was it in an accident (of course the answer is no)
Tires might not be fully broken in
For some reason, caster has to be adjusted a certain way

Anyway, they told me I have a 6-month warranty if I have problems. In the meantime, I went 70-80 on the highway and it was still perfectly straight. Steering wheel was also perfectly straight with no shakes.

Sounds like you're covered then. The shop sounds reputable, and with the warranty I wouldn't worry about it.

Taking it in tomorrow morning. The guys are gonna think I'm crazy cause I'm sure they're gonna drive it and say there's nothing wrong with it. They told me yesterday I should not be worried about the caster.

The owner of the place is gonna have a look. What should I tell them when they ask why I'm concerned about the caster?

EDIT -- What about the camber and toe? Where should they be? I want to make sure everything is looked at, and adjusted properly.

LAST EDIT -- I have a strut tower brace (for 10 years, so I don't think that is causing anything).

FINAL EDIT -- Overall, what are the recommended settings for a stock suspension and wheels setup?

I appreciate everyone's input on this, thanks!

The shop did ask me if the car is pulling (which I had to answer no because it really is not). When I told them it isn't pulling, they said not to worry about the cross caster. I know everyone's saying it is high, but the car continues to ride and drive good. If it didn't ride good, then I'd have a legitimate complaint.

It's crazy because I feel if I ignore the alignment sheet, I'm happy.

Ok, after driving it for a bit, I confirmed my steering was a bit softer than I remembered since I owned the car. Took it back today and explained the steering was a bit "numb" at the dead zone, so he took some toe out (still leaving some in, slightly above zero).

He didn't mess with the other settings. But I have to say, the car feels 100% better now! Still no pulling/drifting, and the "sports car" handling is back.

Hello,


Not to be the pooper of the party, but those alignment specs are horrible. I would expect those numbers to take you straight into the right side ditch. You have something bent ,damaged, or worn out somewhere. Whatever is wrong is causing your car to want to pull strongly to the left. It presently goes straight because your alignment numbers are causing an equal and opposite pull to the right. The net effect is the car goes straight, but something is still wrong. I'd take a real close look at your steering and suspension parts (bushings, control arms, subframe/cradle, panhard arm, steering knuckle, etc.) in both front and rear of the car.

As an after-thought, there are two other possibilities. You may have gotten a bad set of tires causing a pull. A tire rotation would show if this was the case. The other possibilty is brakes hanging up on the left/passenger side. They would have to be hanging up pretty bad to cause a pull that needs that much correction, but inspecting the brakes never hurt. Keep your car straight and God bless.



-Chvrlt283

I agree, all of the above makes very good sense. Dave

I definitely questioned the tire shop on all these possibilities, and they did not see anything bent or worn on the car (I'm sure if they did, they would've been thrilled to sell me new suspension parts on the car for extra $$$).

I know everyone keeps on saying "tire-pull", and I questioned that as well. They say it was more common 15-20 years ago, and is hardly a problem with tires this wide. I did think about rotating the tires to see what happens.

About these specs, they did tell me this wasn't the first car they had to adjust this way. The car currently drives so perfect, I'm almost thinking the caster read-out was not very accurate.

Before the new tires, I did start noticing it was a little bit easier (just barely noticeable) to steer left compared to right but there was no pulling. After the new tires and before the alignment, it was a slight pull (and I mean SLIGHT, not really a pull, but a drift) to the left (only noticed when I let go of the steering wheel). Now when I let go of the wheel, it drives perfectly straight and steering efforts are equal left or right..

I don't know. Guess I'll keep driving to see what happens (when the snow clears, that is).

EDIT -- All of this was going on with all 4 tires at 30psi.

EDIT 4-1-2010 -- Still driving straight, now at 28000 miles. Same alignment specs except for toe (adjusted again late Feb/early March to barely toe-in, at 0.03). Seemed like too much play in the wheel with the toe at .15".