Full Version: Powershifting
I've tried it a couple time and was successful. A couple other time I just grinded my gears. What is the technique to powershift? Charles, I've heard you say on occasion "Who uses a clutch?". I figure you might be able to coach me again. How do I do it? ???
Not using a clutch is a very tricky thing. You must really know your gears, some transmissions are better at it than others.
Start by gently lifting off on the gas and pull the trans out of gear, then match the revs in the next gear and put just enough pressure on the shifter to "feel" your way into the gear. IF it is going to work, the lever should slide the gear right into place with no clashing at all.
Practice, practice, practice, then don't do it when racing somebody, becuz that is when you will miss the shift!
I used to do this all the time with a Muncie on the track and it was really smooth, but the gears had to be shifted really fast and precisely.
Automatics are much better at this than a manual. Have never heard of anybody with an auto using a clutch.
Start by gently lifting off on the gas and pull the trans out of gear, then match the revs in the next gear and put just enough pressure on the shifter to "feel" your way into the gear. IF it is going to work, the lever should slide the gear right into place with no clashing at all.
Practice, practice, practice, then don't do it when racing somebody, becuz that is when you will miss the shift!
I used to do this all the time with a Muncie on the track and it was really smooth, but the gears had to be shifted really fast and precisely.
Automatics are much better at this than a manual. Have never heard of anybody with an auto using a clutch.
I'm certainly no pro, but I've always thought power shifting was not letting up on the gas while you slam the clutch in, shift gears, and then slide your left foot to the left off the clutch letting it pop out (all the while keeping the gas mashed). When I do this I get a nice satisfying kick in the pants as the next gear engages and it just sounds awesome.
yea, i know what u mean Tony. my car slicks into gears beautifuly if i keep my foot steady on the gas..its like an auto, but, u can still tell its stick.
be CAREFUL about what charles explained to you.. this is a VERY tricky manouver. Guys who live to do this can obviously do this well.. i was driving arund with my Cuz in his Integ, zipping around town against some of his friends in their other ricers, and they do this amazingly, there is ho hold back in gears, the cars smoooooothly shoot off like bullets into each gear..
..dont be surprised if your "service engine" light comes on,. and u need some new gears
be CAREFUL about what charles explained to you.. this is a VERY tricky manouver. Guys who live to do this can obviously do this well.. i was driving arund with my Cuz in his Integ, zipping around town against some of his friends in their other ricers, and they do this amazingly, there is ho hold back in gears, the cars smoooooothly shoot off like bullets into each gear..
..dont be surprised if your "service engine" light comes on,. and u need some new gears
Yes. That is my defination of powershifting as well. WOT...hit the clutch, slam the gear, drop the clutch...squeal! I really need to do a 6 spd swap. I miss doing that. :D
us automatic guys ALWAYS have our gas mashed lol. Not starting anything!!!
Doug
Doug
In my area powershifting is not letting off the gas to shift, does a helluva job to synchros and I hope you like to change clutches. Not using the clutch is skillful, I had to drive a 50's 9N ford tractor, it doesn't have synchros and if you don't synch up the engine right, tah tah to that gear, I didn't have a problem though. On my bird I can do it if needed, but I'd perfer to shift like a sane person :D
Wow, I'd almost forgotten about this post. Since Charles response I've played around with it a little. Not using the clutch that is, just shifting. I can do it, but grind gears too much and am too slow at it so I gave up.
I let my brother-in-law drive my bird and he shifts like this through all the gears. He's a semi truck driver and I guess that helps.
How in the world are you guys shifting with your foot on the pedal full throttle? I must be insanely slow, cause I think if I tried that I'd hit the rev limiter every time. It seems like I've been told, the best drivers can shift a gear in .3 seconds and that sounds fast. But it seems that would give enough time for the RPM's to rap up there pretty tight, especially if you are already shifting at a high RPM.
Here is how I shift, when driving hard.
Let off of gas.
Pull it out of gear while beginning to push in the clutch (It slides out of gear quite nicely without the clutch).
I'll have the clutch slightly depressed, while shoving into new gear.
Then try to match my accelerator downward as I let the clutch come upwards, to get a smooth shift with no jumps or bogs or slips.
This is the best way I've found to get over my long clutch pedal travel handicap with meeting my accelerator pedal, and matching RPM with next gear.
The harder/faster the shift this isn't such a problem. I just kinda have a handicap when being delicate.
My biggest problem is clutch pedal travel. I don't know if there is a better way to try and shorten it, but I think I'm just going to rig up a stopper to me from letting it travel too far. The clutch on my car doesn't have to be all the way pressed for the car to cooperate with the shift. The longer it takes for my foot to press the clutch and let off to engage it again, the slower the process for changing gears.
Not saying I have bad coordination or have a problem driving my car. There is just always way to improve, and I don't think I'm a .3 second shifter maybe a .4 or .5. There is more time involved than just shoving the stick. There is setting up for the shift and recovering from the shift. And a whole bunch of subconcious math involved in this ballet to do it quickly and consistently for precise subsecond responses.
What's your technique and handicap (if any)?
I let my brother-in-law drive my bird and he shifts like this through all the gears. He's a semi truck driver and I guess that helps.
How in the world are you guys shifting with your foot on the pedal full throttle? I must be insanely slow, cause I think if I tried that I'd hit the rev limiter every time. It seems like I've been told, the best drivers can shift a gear in .3 seconds and that sounds fast. But it seems that would give enough time for the RPM's to rap up there pretty tight, especially if you are already shifting at a high RPM.
Here is how I shift, when driving hard.
Let off of gas.
Pull it out of gear while beginning to push in the clutch (It slides out of gear quite nicely without the clutch).
I'll have the clutch slightly depressed, while shoving into new gear.
Then try to match my accelerator downward as I let the clutch come upwards, to get a smooth shift with no jumps or bogs or slips.
This is the best way I've found to get over my long clutch pedal travel handicap with meeting my accelerator pedal, and matching RPM with next gear.
The harder/faster the shift this isn't such a problem. I just kinda have a handicap when being delicate.
My biggest problem is clutch pedal travel. I don't know if there is a better way to try and shorten it, but I think I'm just going to rig up a stopper to me from letting it travel too far. The clutch on my car doesn't have to be all the way pressed for the car to cooperate with the shift. The longer it takes for my foot to press the clutch and let off to engage it again, the slower the process for changing gears.
Not saying I have bad coordination or have a problem driving my car. There is just always way to improve, and I don't think I'm a .3 second shifter maybe a .4 or .5. There is more time involved than just shoving the stick. There is setting up for the shift and recovering from the shift. And a whole bunch of subconcious math involved in this ballet to do it quickly and consistently for precise subsecond responses.
What's your technique and handicap (if any)?
I've only had my car since last November, so it's not like I've done it a lot but when I do, the engine definitely revs up before the gears reengage. I've played drums and percussion since I was a little kid, so I guess I have good coordination. I don't know how long it takes in 10ths of a second, but it's really almost like one motion - I'm pulling (or pushing) the shifter (hurst short throw) out of gear so that by the time the clutch has disengaged the gears, I'm already out of gear and moving into the next gear at which point I slide my foot to the left and pop the clutch.
At that instant, it feels like someone has shoved the car from behind (I've actually chirped the tires again going from 1st to second) and the engine which is already revving up seems to explode with even more sound (no doubt from running unloaded for an instant). I'm probably starting this whole process around 4000-4500 RPMs, but to be honest, I'm not sure since there's a lot going on and I kind of just do it as the tach needle heads toward the red. I'm going to go to the track soon to explore whether all of this will equate to the mid tp low 13s in a more or less stock car (which it should if I can manage to drive it right and and force my late 30s brain to still have some reaction time... ).
At that instant, it feels like someone has shoved the car from behind (I've actually chirped the tires again going from 1st to second) and the engine which is already revving up seems to explode with even more sound (no doubt from running unloaded for an instant). I'm probably starting this whole process around 4000-4500 RPMs, but to be honest, I'm not sure since there's a lot going on and I kind of just do it as the tach needle heads toward the red. I'm going to go to the track soon to explore whether all of this will equate to the mid tp low 13s in a more or less stock car (which it should if I can manage to drive it right and and force my late 30s brain to still have some reaction time... ).
My biggest problem when Powershifting is I lose way to much traction if I hold the throttle wide open during shifts. Must be time for some Nitto's.
Some guys in the local club run with those, although some of them have had trouble with flats. I heard those are pretty scary in the rain...although one person's scary is another person's fun.
Nitto's seem to be the preference up here in the Detroit area. Drop the pressure down to 20 and they hook great. As long as the rearend holds up!!! ???
There is no way I could keep my foot in it when I shift, I shift at 5500 rpms and the one time I tried this after reading this post, I hit the rev limiter, first time that has happened not doing a burnout. I don't know how fast I shift but I know my rpms only drop 500 to 1000 rpms maybe less, I'm an old heel toe guy, but now when I drag my left foot stays on the pedal til it's over, and I never set it down on the floor in a race, Everyday driving it's nice and easy, My uncle taught me when I was 14 to drive a stick, in an old monza, then when I was 15 and was good at it, he let me drive his 429BOSS mustang what a feeling, that car could spin the tires in 3rd gear, I think the first day I drove that car I was hooked for life. He's also the one that taught me the no clutch shift, I've needed it a few times in my life when a clutch has when out and I was far from home. Personal record:75 miles or so without using the clutch, ran 4 stop signs and 2 red lights but I made it home without stopping.
Mouse,
When a clutch blew up in my 57 Corvette, drove the car home without being able to declutch for shifts. Somehow, whatever was left was still engaged, had to run some stop signs and a stoplight, but made it home, a couple shifts without clutch. Had been practicing for maybe a year to do that when I realized that timing the shift just right would slide it right into gear. Have been using this techique ever since. However, gotta say, this T56 is not the best transmission for doing clutchless shifts. Synchros seem to be weaker or something.
When a clutch blew up in my 57 Corvette, drove the car home without being able to declutch for shifts. Somehow, whatever was left was still engaged, had to run some stop signs and a stoplight, but made it home, a couple shifts without clutch. Had been practicing for maybe a year to do that when I realized that timing the shift just right would slide it right into gear. Have been using this techique ever since. However, gotta say, this T56 is not the best transmission for doing clutchless shifts. Synchros seem to be weaker or something.
Maybe the RPMs at shift make all the difference. Leaving the gas in, I'm shifting at more like 4500, but my guess would be this gives steadier power since LS1s seem to die off a bit at the highest RPMs. Kind of like the coke and pespi thing... the fun is in trying all the different ways to get from point A to B quickly with so many variables involved it's almost an art form.
BTW - I wonder how many die-hard manual fans learned on a stick. I took my driver's test at 16 in a 4 speed Chevette and most of the cars I have owned have been manuals or had the ability to shift manually (an Audi). I don't feel like I'm driving unless I'm mashing gears...although it can be a bit of a drag in stop and go traffic jams where you inch along.
BTW - I wonder how many die-hard manual fans learned on a stick. I took my driver's test at 16 in a 4 speed Chevette and most of the cars I have owned have been manuals or had the ability to shift manually (an Audi). I don't feel like I'm driving unless I'm mashing gears...although it can be a bit of a drag in stop and go traffic jams where you inch along.
Sometimes when I'm in slow traffic, I'll just bog the motor in first and creep. Might not be good for the motor though. I just like the fact when I'm merging, I can go into 3rd gear and mash it, then back to 6th.
Traffics a RIP! 
real pain in the @$$ when u got a stick.. i cant wait till it eases up, and then u can start to pop gears,..*sivvers..* oh the feeling of horses! * argh argh argh*
real pain in the @$$ when u got a stick.. i cant wait till it eases up, and then u can start to pop gears,..*sivvers..* oh the feeling of horses! * argh argh argh*
One quick thing on power shifting LS1 cars. The 01's & 02's Transmissions have very weak shift forks & the stock shifters don't have stops built in them. The transmission has stops built into it, but they are not very strong either. After about 30 passes at the dragstrip, powershifting, I ended up bending my 3/4 shift fork & grinding down my Synchros. The Pontiac dealership tried to void my warranty, but couldn't proove that I had been racing. My advice if you are running an 01 or 02 M6 LS1 car, get an aftermarket shifter like a Pro 5.0 or a B&M Ripper. I'm running the Pro 5.0 & have the stops set so I don't have to rely on the transmissions internal stops. The pre 01 cars still had the Borg Warner T-56's in them, when Tremec took over production of the T-56's the quailty of the shiftforks went down. That's why if you read the add's in some hotrod magazines they offer Cast Iron T-56 shift forks & Carbon Fiber Synchros.
Jamnut - that's good info - thanks. What's your launch technique and how do you shift? Based on your ET it looks like you're pretty quick.
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